[dermodyr]

Hi,

My lawn has become infested with dandelions, daisies, thistles and moss. It is 2500m2

Im thinking of using Hytrol and then sulphate of iron. Leave that for around 2-4 weeks. Rake off dead moss and then 10-10-20 to give it a kick.

Any recommendations/comments?

[michael brenock]

Hytrol is a total herbicide (kills everything) contains amitrole 2.4d + diuron +Simazine. There will be no grass weeds or moss left after applying it and the 10 10 20 will be wasted. Go for a selective weedkiller containing MCPA and 2 4 D and use the Sulphate of iron later with the fertiliser to kill off the moss.
michael brenock horticultural advisor (retired)

[walltoall]

deep respect to all posters on this thread. I have a sabatier kitchen knife dedicated to cutting the legs off dandelions, thistles and daisies. At this time of year I spend about 20mins EVERY day going over the estate with my knife and my kneeler.

You only stopped Dermot in the nick of time Michael. Hytrol is the agent orange of killers. Be the hokey he'd have no weed problem if he sprayed the lawn with that. And no moss problem and no grass problem and no growth problem. Doesn't it have a residual as well? or am i mistaken?

I'm sorry Dermot but I'm just trying to visualise a totally bald lawn with absolutely NOTHING in it and brown death all over. I'd get a knife if I was you. It's VERY therapeutic. As you go think of each weed as a TD and when you have the Dáil done move on to the Senate. By the end of May you'll have a beautiful lawn and no political problem in the ground.

[inishindie]

Did someone mention agent orange....? Check out 2,4-D

2,4-D was a major component (about 50%) of the product Agent Orange (made by Monsanto) ...

My dad used to go out with his penknife and dig out weeds in his lawn too... therapeutic and natural.. gardening should be about working with nature....not against it....

Check why the moss is appearing and poor grass cover enabling weeds to flourish. You might have poor drainage, poor soil, is it in shade? Send us a photo....

Chemical warfare on the lawn isn't the answer, it would be a temporary solution

[breezyacre]

Hi guys speaking of therapy and getting rid of the moss too. I hire a scarifier every year and ship all the moss to the recycling centre for composting. It has been so successful that one of my friends has booked me in when i have finished my own sward and my father in law has now become my best friend as well ...after nearly 25 years! My neighbour has tall leylandi ( probably spelt incorrectly) on the boundary of our gardens and hence the moss. This is a situation I cannot change and therefore i will have to continue to scarify once a year

[dermodyr]

Thanks for the advice guys. Unfortunately I have hundreds if not thousands of weeds. I enjoy doing a bit of gardening but really I have to mind my back.

Regarding Hytrol, I was going to use "Hytrol Lawn Weedkiller - For the control of all major lawn weeds. Usage: Use when weeds are actively growing". Thanks for recommendations regarding alternatives - I'll see if local coop has something with MCPA + 2 4 D.

Regarding moss, I think I know the reasons why I have it.
1) Poor drainage
2) Mulching (and cutting more than 1/3 when mulching)
3) Never aerated or scarified in 6 years.
4) Using roundup drops on weeds that leaves a bald patch.

I know, I know lots of the above are my own negligence so whats why I want to rectify it.

Ok so Im going to do this

1) Apply weedkiller containing MCPA + 2 4 D
2) Apply iron of sulphate + 10-10-20 4-6 weeks later
3) Scarify maybe 4 weeks after applying iron of sulphate (Im actually looking at purchasing this one (http://www.mowdirect.co.uk/acatalog/AGRI-FAB-40---SPRING-TINE-DETHATCHER--45-02941-.html?s=1592)
4) Apply lawn seed to badly affected areas
5) October : Aerate - Will maybe purchase an pull behind aerator also.
6) Spring : Scarify - Aerate - Apply lawn sand + fertilizer (10-10-20) + grass seed

Thanks for the advice guys - Hows my plan of action looking then?

[breezyacre]

Hi Dermodyr. You have set yourself out alot of work there. With regard to the moss i think that it is likely that this is and will be an annual problem that is why I would recommend the scarifier. It cost me €35 to hire and it did a good job. It is a once off job and therefore I wonder whether it is a good idea to buy one. With regard to the weeds I buy a dry weed and feed in Woodies every year and I spot treat the weeds I want to get rid of. This should be done when rain is expected. HTH

[inishindie]

Rectify these and your troubles will be solved:


Regarding moss, I think I know the reasons why I have it.
1) Poor drainage
2) Mulching (and cutting more than 1/3 when mulching)
3) Never aerated or scarified in 6 years.
4) Using roundup drops on weeds that leaves a bald patch.

Resorting to chemicals is never a permanent solution.

Solutions that appear the easiest (such as weedkillers) are not the answer

Improve the drainage
mow often
aerate0-adding sand maybe
let nature do the rest

It need not be too labour intensive..

good luck

[michael brenock]

wallto all you gave me the best laugh this week, great descriptions and great motives. The sharp pointed knife is very good on dandelions. As for moss there can be a number of causes, shading poor soil fertility, capping of soil from being walked on in the wet conditions. Soil pH has very little influence on the moss. The moss grows throughout the Winter when grass is semi dormant. Feed the grass in the Spring and set the lawnmower blade down as low as possible every third or fourth cut and feed every Spring with a general purpose fertiliser including Sulphate of iron. If you take the mowings off the lawn then you must replenish it wit feed.
michael brenock horticultural advisor (retired)

[BrownMini]

[dermodyr]

Ok just got 5 litres of Damine, which contains 2 4 D. Will probably spray the whole lawn and then spot treat later in the summer. Fingers crossed that it will kill most of the offending weeds.

Maybe I'll post a pic here of the worst area pre and post spraying.

Thanks for all the advice.

[inishindie]

I'm on my soap box again...Maybe someone agrees? I do feel like a bit of a lone voice here at the moment.....

Read carefully before use.... You don't get this on a bottle of vinegar:)

http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/Amine400-SL.pdf


"2,4-D continues to be used, where legal, for its low cost. However, where municipal lawn pesticide bylaws exist, such as in Canada,[10] alternatives such as corn gluten meal and vinegar-based products are increasingly being used to combat weeds."

"The chemical weapon tabun is derived from dimethylamine which is an ingredient"

2,4-dichlorophenol, is a suspected endocrine disrupter and possible carcinogen. 2,4-D is toxic to the liver at small dosages. Increases in liver function tests, jaundice, acute hepatitis, lobular and portal inflammation indicative of a toxic reaction, as well as permanent damage leading to cirrhosis in exposed golfers.Was also ingredient in Agent Orange in Vietnam.

Warn the neighbours too if you have them......

Guess you can tell I don't like weedkillers or the way that they are advertised like sweeties for gardeners with their promise of weed free living and colourful images. They are not a quick fix, the garden will need treating every year unless you take natural measures to alter the way the land is working....Poisoning wildlife, you and the land......

I mentioned the use of chemicals in the garden to some of my Facebook chums, here are a couple of comments.......

"Isnt that the challenge and the thrill??" referring to finding alternatives..

"We just have to learn to accept that nature is never "tidy, square monoculture" The more effort we put in to achieving this the quicker nature will react to create the opposite"

"Outwitting nature as much as one can, yes that is a real challenge and gives great satisfaction. It will never produce the "perfect" solution but does that really matter as long as it gives you food and supports our striving for sustainability......"

"there is so much widespread concern about the extent to which the environment is being damaged, and the main concerns are the widespread use of chemical fertilisers and pesticides which can pollute the soil, water and the atmosphere, and the use of non renewable sources such as our peat, Chemicals can get into our food chain and water supply with potentially serious results. the proliferation of chemicals has largely occurred over the past fifty or so years and prior to that much more reliance was put on good cultural practices, look at old gardening books, not a mention of pesticides! we should embrace and work with nature rather than against it, feed the soil and not the plants, recycle all waste, encourage natural predators and avoid at all costs, the use of chemicals, whether as fertilisers or pesticides, a good source for organic methods is from the charitable organisation I'd highly recommend them, the Henry Doubleday Research Association (HDRA) I find them a good source for beginners up to all levels of experience, I've been a member for over 15 years, Stay Green, stay healthy"

[Sive]

Hey Inishindie, I totally agree with you, you are not a lone voice at all ! I just haven't done the research you've done, but all my life I have tried to minimise the chemicals I use in every way...whether in the garden, or home. I am a post-war baby and my life span has seen an explosion of chemicals being used for the most trivial of reasons.
Every time I see an ad on TV for those insidious "room fresheners" I find myself muttering about people's stupidity at the TV !

[michael brenock]

check out 2 4 5 T (Brushwood killer) for it's connection with agent orange. When asked what will control certain pests I give an answer and I expect the user to be careful in handling the material. Chemicals are not a substitute for hard work but they are useful when used according to instructions. I have read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson and it was well ahead of it's time.
michael brenock horticultural advisor (retired)

[Sive]

I think Silent Spring changed my entire mindset when I read it in the sixties Michael...and to think a few years earlier my mother regularly used a spray called Flit to kill bluebottles in the kitchen, even with food around ! I suspect it had DDT in it. Innocent days !