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What are these two trees in our garden?


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crol
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: What are these two trees in our garden? Reply with quote

Hiya,

These two trees are in the garden of our new home and are close to a large extension we are planning to build.

Do you know what they are and if they would present any subsidence issues?

Thanks for your help!

Crol



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conifer is to the right
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conifer close up
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Greengage
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One is a Thuja probably Thuja occidentalis Smaragd - " Emerald" the green one the variegated one is griselinia littoralis bantry bay
Neither should cause a problem re subsidence they dont look very big.
I would not worry. But then your not paying me as your engineer so dont sue me, Laughing
If it was my house I would have no problem removing them the thuja would be shallow rooted and good to remove it anyway as it can grow 30ft the Griselinia was originally found growing on garnish Island Glengarriff and propagated from that.
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tagwex
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello and welcome aboard.
The conifer shouldn't cause a problem as it has a tap root. The variegated something or other (someone far cleverer than I will identify it) might be a problem. Either way it is totally dependent on your soil type rather than anything else.
The variegated something or other, did it suffer a lightening strike or a bonfire or what??????

_________________
Its my field. Its my child. I nursed it. I nourished it. I saw to its every want. I dug the rocks out of it with my bare hands and I made a living thing of it!

This boy can really sing http://youtu.be/Dgv78D2duBE
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tagwex
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See. As I was writing someone far cleverer than I appeared. But it was only Greengage!!!
By the way I am an engineer, so you can pay me instead!!!

_________________
Its my field. Its my child. I nursed it. I nourished it. I saw to its every want. I dug the rocks out of it with my bare hands and I made a living thing of it!

This boy can really sing http://youtu.be/Dgv78D2duBE
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crol
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greengage wrote:
Neither should cause a problem re subsidence they dont look very big.
I would not worry. But then your not paying me as your engineer so dont sue me, Laughing


Thanks for your help Greengage.

It was our engineer who asked if I knew what kind of trees they were!

Crol
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tagwex
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he was any good he would have identified them on site!!
_________________
Its my field. Its my child. I nursed it. I nourished it. I saw to its every want. I dug the rocks out of it with my bare hands and I made a living thing of it!

This boy can really sing http://youtu.be/Dgv78D2duBE
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crol
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tagwex wrote:
Hello and welcome aboard.
The conifer shouldn't cause a problem as it has a tap root. The variegated something or other (someone far cleverer than I will identify it) might be a problem. Either way it is totally dependent on your soil type rather than anything else.
The variegated something or other, did it suffer a lightening strike or a bonfire or what??????


Thanks Tagwex,

A smaller tree was growing beside the variegated one but was removed by our builders. They also cut down the conifer.

The foundation soil has some soft clay in it which has our structural engineer concerned. He are currently waiting for plasticity index results from a lab before he works out how to proceed.

Crol
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tagwex
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you are talking.
_________________
Its my field. Its my child. I nursed it. I nourished it. I saw to its every want. I dug the rocks out of it with my bare hands and I made a living thing of it!

This boy can really sing http://youtu.be/Dgv78D2duBE
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forums crol.

1. Looks like Chamaecyparis_lawsoniana.....note the round female cones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamaecyparis_lawsoniana#mediaviewer/File:Chamaecyparis_lawsoniana.jpg

Yes ....it will grow HUGE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamaecyparis_lawsoniana

The roots spread out horizontally.
It will be far too near the extension.
See table in link below about trees/planting distances from homes

http://www.subsidencebureau.com/subsidence_trees.htm


2.I believe is Pittosporum sp. It produces seed capsules.

Griselina has leaves that are alternate and has berries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griselinia_littoralis#mediaviewer/File:Griselinia_littoralis.jpg
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tagwex
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notwithstanding your proven expert tree identification knowledge Silver surfer but do all conifers not have a main tap root and lots of shallow horizontal roots that are really not a danger to nearby buildings?
_________________
Its my field. Its my child. I nursed it. I nourished it. I saw to its every want. I dug the rocks out of it with my bare hands and I made a living thing of it!

This boy can really sing http://youtu.be/Dgv78D2duBE
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tagwex wrote:
but do all conifers not have a main tap root and lots of shallow horizontal roots that are really not a danger to nearby buildings?


Having seen at close hand many conifers blown over in the past gales I would say that they do not seem to show any signs of a main tap root,
Rather they have a large circumference of shallow roots radiating from the tree.

I believe in the great storms in 1974 many experts were really amazed at how shallow the roots were of many giant trees. .It rather rewrote all the thinking about how trees actually grew.

See links below.

Further damage is caused to homes in areas of clay soils...in hot summers
Conifers are notorious for sucking the water out, the clay dries and shrinks and houses subside.
Insurance companies now have many new rules about how close Leylandii hedges should be to properties.

Trees have a further problem in small gardens...they all grow.
Some like Leylandii are huge trees...just kept dwarf by pruning.
Stop pruning and they rocket.

https://scotneycastlent.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/picture-965.jpg

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/126976.jpg

http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/Weather/Pictures/28November2005_014.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wLXVEw_mosc/T1jT-KtD6nI/AAAAAAAAAEc/iU0P7MOQeRk/s1600/Tree.jpg
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tagwex
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have had to retrace my steps on this and have had to revise some long held beliefs that were beaten into me many years ago in Uni by well meaning lecturers, but that was 30 years ago so knowledge has improved since then. Having rooted (excuse the pun) through my library of reference books it turns out that it is a common misconception that some trees have a deep root system and others a shallow one. Virtually all trees will have the bulk of their root system (95%) located very close to the soil surface -- within the top 12-18" of the soil and most roots will occur right below the soil surface. That is where the necessary oxygen and most of the soil moisture and nutrients are located. Very few trees produce actual tap roots and many that are commonly considered taprooted are really only so in their youth -- they tend to outgrow that characteristic as they age. Sure, some trees will develop a deeper than normal root system in response to specific growing conditions (i.e., to access underground aquifers in very arid climates) but it is uncommon in a cultivated landscape.
Some trees are known to produce a lot of surface roots or roots that will emerge above soil level - many maples, some oaks, various prunus species, magnolias, etc. all share that trait, but again how likely this is to occur will depend on specific growing conditions. Conifers, in particular, the Cypress family are in the high water demand bracket whereas Cedar, Douglas Fir, Pine, Spruce, Wellingtonia and Yew are in the moderate water demand bracket.

_________________
Its my field. Its my child. I nursed it. I nourished it. I saw to its every want. I dug the rocks out of it with my bare hands and I made a living thing of it!

This boy can really sing http://youtu.be/Dgv78D2duBE
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many ideas have been rethought in past few years.

eg.
Planting trees and shrubs...before.it was believed that it was best to dig deep large hole and fill it with compost/fertiliser and fork that in to enrich the planting hole.
Now that has been superseded. No compost. to be added. Hole no longer needs to be deep.

Trees and shrubs grow into nearby soil better if the planting hole is not extra special.
In enriched planting holes tree roots just go round in a circle...unwilling to make the effort to go into compacted plain soil surrounding planting area.

Deep dug holes mean water can sump in the bottom.

Even flower pots are very different now...these are the air breathing root training pots now recommended...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Pots.jpg
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Greengage
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original question if you look at the first pic the evergreen has the Giss (General Idea Shape and Size) of Thuja occidentalis Smaragd - " Emerald"
I will concede the second pic is probably a Pittosporum sp. i got all excited when I saw the leaves, Embarassed
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't normally attempt conifer ids.
It is tricky and hard enough when you see them in front of you.
Even harder from a pic!

However, the cones of Thuya occidentalis are more elongated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Thuja_occidentalis_-_cone_1_(aka).jpg

Really the actual id in this case was not important.
Conifers close to houses should just a big NO!
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