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Tree ID. Possibly from the beech family?


 
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Gautama
Rank attained: Silver Birch Tree
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Joined: 29 Aug 2008
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Location: Cork

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Tree ID. Possibly from the beech family? Reply with quote

Any ideas what this tree is? There are a number of them in the Coillte woods near where I live.
The leaves are very similar to Sweet Chestnut, but not as long. In ways the tree reminds me of beech too.
The bark is purple with silver patches and many lenticels.
These photos were taken about four weeks ago.



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Twig.jpg
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Bark.jpg
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Bark.
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Greengage
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Joined: 09 Nov 2011
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Location: Kildare

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like Prunus serrulata.
Leaves simple, deciduous leaves, alternate leaf arrangement, ovate leaf shape
3" to 5" long and up to 2" wide, serrate leaf margin, pointed leaf apex, red when emerging changing to a dark green, 2 to 4 glands found on leaf petiole
Autumn Foliage, all color is bronze to red, somewhat showy
Flowers depends on cultivar range from white to pink and can be single or double
flowers in April borne along stems, before leaves emerge.
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greengage wrote:
That looks like Prunus serrulata.


Hmm! Still thinking!
But I am almost positive that it is not Prunus serrulata.
The leaves of which look rather different.
The easy test is to look for glands on the stalk of the leaf.
I cannot see any on the pics
see link.


http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=prunus+serrulata+glands&um=1&hl=en&biw=1536&bih=776&tbm=isch&tbnid=tHYoGR7q0jBRtM:&imgrefurl=http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/prseta5.htm&docid=3LoB5bMmKbFGyM&imgurl=http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/images/prsek62.jpg&w=600&h=385&ei=b8ptULvoL6es0QXwp4HYCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=797&vpy=154&dur=7586&hovh=180&hovw=280&tx=113&ty=123&sig=105050878957448920657&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=173&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:80


..
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&biw=1271&bih=612&tbm=isch&tbnid=zbEXOqmnR8I17M:&imgrefurl=http://chalk.richmond.edu/biology/trees/htmls/prunus_serrulata.htm&docid=HHLb7hC9pTFzEM&imgurl=http://chalk.richmond.edu/biology/trees/images/Prunus_serrulata_leaf.jpg&w=550&h=413&ei=kMttUM_qNajF0QWzjYHoCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=113&vpy=226&dur=779&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=122&ty=77&sig=117860512390613209384&page=1&tbnh=131&tbnw=168&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:90
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gautama, would it be possible for you to go back to these trees again?
I would love to know if there are any other clues there... such as berries, fruits seeds, nuts etc. Pics please?
Maybe even something that has dropped to the ground under the tree?

The leaf looks like Carpinus to me... but the bark does not fit.

This wood was planted by some tobacco merchant so it is possible he was wealthy enough to plant a few unusual/different trees that one would not normally find in a native wood.


Last edited by Silver surfer on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Greengage
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK how about Prunus avium or Prunus padus
It is a Prunus would you not agree
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Greengage
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My screen has gone funny and pics have vanished, It was the bark and twigs that have me thinking Prunus although I agree the leaves look like Carpinus But On the evidence so far Im sticking with Prunus, you seem to know more about where these are planted so I take its not Ireland. ( How you figure out it is a tabaco plantation
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greengage wrote:
you seem to know more about where these are planted so I take its not Ireland. ( How you figure out it is a tabaco plantation



Move across screen... pics still there on far right!

Elementary dear Watson....

I looked on www for Coillte wood. It took me to Farran Forest Park....
Coillte Teo, Bowl Road, Macroom, Co Cork, Republic Of Ireland

Not a tobacco plantation... but land owned/planted by a tobacco millionaire ... (probably.)

Found this...
"The 45 hectare forest once formed a mere fragment of the vast Farran Estate which was owned by a Captain Clarke, of tobacco products fame. Farran Forest Park "

http://www.discoverireland.com/gb/ireland-things-to-see-and-do/listings/product/?fid=FI_44704
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Gautama
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!
Lots of replies and I'm glad posters are as taken by it as I am.
I actually have one more pic, of the entire tree. This should do in the mean time 'til I take a walk in the wood again.



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CelticWays
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: I think I have this tree in my garden Reply with quote

I have Himalayan Alders in my big tree labyrinth in my garden.
Their leaves and bark match you pictures exactly, but the buds
on the twigs do not.

At the moment the branch twigs are abundant in maroon coloured catkins.
I bought my Himilayan Alders 4 years ago from Future Forests near Bantry, Kerry.
All tree plants I have bought from them have lived well,
much better than plants bought locally.
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Gautama
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had another look at these trees today. Most of the leaves have fallen. Those that remain are either fully green or else turning in colour to a mix of brown/yellow/pale green.

I don't think its Prunus serrulata. There are no petiole glands present, the petioles are shorter and the leaves more elongated in shape.

I had a look around for other clues but there were none. No berries or seeds of any sort, neither on the branches nor the ground (none visible here anyway).

To me the bark is very Prunus, and the twigs and leaves very Fagaceae.

Not sure where the tobacco/Farran references are coming from. This is a Coillte wood in East Cork. It's not a Coillte amenity wood, rather a production wood (SS) which is being thinned at present.

As for the two native cherry trees, it does look similar in ways, but not quite either. And it doesn't look like Alnus nitida either!

So, if all else fails we may have to wait for the spring and flowering time.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gautama wrote:
I had another look at these trees today. .

Not sure where the tobacco/Farran references are coming from. This is a Coillte wood in East Cork. It's not a Coillte amenity wood, rather a production wood (SS) which is being thinned at present.


So, if all else fails we may have to wait for the spring and flowering time.

.................................................
Thank you for revisiting.
Shame no further clues
Hmm! How many Coillte woods are there in Cork?
Quote...."I looked on www for Coillte wood. It took me to Farran Forest Park....
Coillte Teo, Bowl Road, Macroom, Co Cork, Republic Of Ireland"

I have a feeling it may be a Birch... Betula.
Need time to do more reseach to get a match for the leaves.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A suggestion.....Betula lenta?

http://www.carolinian.org/images/sweetbirch-leaf-virgtech.jpg

.
http://www.thenaturelabs.com/siteadmin/files/sweetbirchsm.jpg

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http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=betula+lenta&num=10&um=1&hl=en&biw=1536&bih=776&tbm=isch&tbnid=MkdEQ7Hlp6hhSM:&imgrefurl=http://laudatortemporisacti.blogspot.com/2009/01/black-birch-bark.html&docid=y1lqVOOhsbHyHM&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RnoICdmSZT8/SVzDNfii9eI/AAAAAAAAAbo/LrG734-khPg/s400/betula-lenta-bark1.jpg&w=267&h=400&ei=AVV9UNSQB8el0QWn7IGYAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1134&vpy=117&dur=1254&hovh=276&hovw=184&tx=104&ty=161&sig=105050878957448920657&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=93&start=0&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:84

.
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/b/betlen/betlen1.html

.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=betula+lenta+missouri&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1536&bih=776&tbm=isch&tbnid=yiQb_3J8LvCMVM:&imgrefurl=http://www.discoverlife.org/20/q%3Fsearch%3DBetula%2Blenta&docid=iOLCpGpymIW5sM&imgurl=http://www.discoverlife.org/IM/I_SB/0372/320/Betula_lenta,_Bark,I_SB37287.jpg&w=214&h=320&ei=mFZ9UP-hAsO80QWLlYCICA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=453&sig=105050878957448920657&page=1&tbnh=135&tbnw=88&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:72&tx=56&ty=47
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Gautama
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[QUOTE=Silver surfer]How many Coillte woods are there in Cork?[/QUOTE]

Many. Though judging by the amount of fully laden logging lorries I pass every day maybe not for long.

Cork is the largest county. In total nationwide, Coillte woods would cover counties Louth, Longford and Leitrim combined!
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Gautama
Rank attained: Silver Birch Tree
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That bark picture of Betula lenta is very close.

However, the leaves do not have that heart shape.

Have a look at my leaf picture again. Very similar to a Castanea sativa but without the length.
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