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Your thoughts on the use of Roundup on vegetable plots


 
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Gardening Daddy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Your thoughts on the use of Roundup on vegetable plots Reply with quote

Anyone got any thoughts on the use of Roundup or other herbicides on vegetable plots. I have two reasonably large areas I want to use this year in addition to my existing plot but the weed problem and size of the areas is quite daunting to say the least in terms of digging. I have avoided using any such sprays in the past as my existing area is manageable and myself and young family eat the veg thus I didn't want to use any chemicals but as I say the size of the areas and time it will take to dig is a huge undertaking. Any thoughts on this guys?
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medieval knievel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i vaguely remember reading that it's not the glyphosate in roundup which is potentially harmful, it's the other stuff they put in which does not denature in the same way.

how big are the plots? would it be feasible to put down some light excluding material for a month or two to weaken the weeds?
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Gardening Daddy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi medieva, the collective area is approx 225 sq mtrs, more work than I feel I could complete on weekends before planting time. The temptation is to blitz the area with Roundup, rotovate it and then lay down some weed suppressing Mypex thus allowing me to start planting in the next fortnight. My only concern with the idea of laying down Mypex alone is it may not kill the weeds in time and still reqires a lot of digging. I really should've done this last Autumn. Crying or Very sad I would like to get the Spuds, Carrots, Onions, Artichokes etc in the ground ASAP. My main concern in this perfect plan of mine is the safety issues surrounding the use of Roundup.

Last edited by Gardening Daddy on Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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michael brenock
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with using roundup and have often used it. This is not the time of the year to use it however, best used in Summer or autumn when growth is active and large cover of leaves present. it has no effect on emerging annual weeds which can be far more numerous when growing vegetables. The safest way to get rid of perennial weeds is to dig them out. There are many types of weedkillers used, contact, residual, hormonal, translocative. Glyphosate is a translocative type.
michael brenock horticultural advisor (retired)

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tippben
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we moved in, the garden was a coutch grassy (scutch) lawn, with plenty of docks and dandelions. I used glyphosate once, then used light supression (cardboard and rotted dung) to finish them off. I'm using raised beds, have had no problems, and have never had to use weedkiller again. Maybe, as Michael suggested, hit them with some glyphosate (Gallup is cheaper than roundup), wait til it takes effect, then rotovate and cover. If you lift the cover after six weeks, any really strong weeds should be visible, and dug up singly. Try using the new beds for vigorous cover crops like spuds or squashes this year- you won't really sort the weeds out until next year without lots of work.
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Gardening Daddy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies guys. Digging has started but we may still employ the help of some glyphosate yet.
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inishindie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always an organic way.......

With Roundup(Monsanto) the pollution is allegedly caused at source when manufactured, this makes the user feel as though they are not being irresponsible.

We're having a debate on facebook at the moment after the RTE programme last night...they were using it....Product Placement or what!

Should have been better researched....

http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_151686318225258&ap=1

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Blowin
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thinkl there was a similar thread about 12 months ago but the culmination was, I think, that 'blitzing' your ground with these chemical treatments is damaging to all sorts of wildlife (directly or indirectly) and is of no long term benefit.

At the end of last summer a local farmer treated one of his fields and, as usual, it went completely brown. Today we walked the dog that way and I noticed the field was virtually solid docks with little grass.

No doubt we've all heard the maxim of 'one year's seeds, seven years weeds' and it is the seeds that are immune to the chemicals so, with all the new space available to them, they take the opportunity to germinate and grow. The seemingly quick fix of rotovating can also be counterproductive as the really troublesome weeds like docks, dandelions and couch grass are multiplied in the process. If you take a nice, big dock root and cut it into four pieces, it'll produce four good, healthy docks. So, too, will the other weeds and Year Two's problems are far greater than Year One's.

Covering with thick back plastic is by far the best method of killing off most of the weds but, as has been said, that reuiqres more time than you've got at the moment.

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medieval knievel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inishindie wrote:
We're having a debate on facebook at the moment after the RTE programme last night...they were using it....Product Placement or what!

to be fair, i think they had that set up quite well, the contrast between the two gardeners and their approaches; roundup didn't get used without comment. the other gardener was fairly robust in her criticism.

i've managed not to use weedkillers myself; well, weedkillers in the conventional sense; i have been known to use boiling water to deal with weeds.
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simonj
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a friend who owns a small shop, or even a pub owner with access to a cash and carry to buy vinegar in bulk, its far better to make your own weed killer.

Vinegar in total, even retail, will cost about 5 or 6 Euro per litre, roundup is aout a tenner.

Arguements about Montsanto aside, I do not know what remains in the ground and I dont like the way the corporation behaves.

Just go for the vinegar, salt and soap mix and blitz with that.
The recipe is on the forum and at the following page of my blog.

http://connemaracroft.blogspot.com/2010/07/homemade-organic-garden-chemicals.html

I just did the paths aroundte raise beds 2 days ago, and already its working.

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michael brenock
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not see the programme on tv about gardening but I met a lot of people to-day and they were critical of the programme that one gardener was very removed from reality and the other was a fan of Round-up which she finds very useful, i use round-up also where necessary. Some of those that i spoke to were disappointed that my book Irish Gardeners Handbook was not mentioned but that Klaus's book was. I have no control over these matters and it is not unsweetened juice from the vine crop. By the way no farmer would use Round-up to control docks and if you cut a dock root in four you will not get four young docks.
michael brenock horticultural advisor (retired)
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Blowin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hesitate to contradict 'The Master' but I've certainly had chunks of dock root in my compost that have sprouted and become plants in their own right. Couch grass and nettles will certainly multiply when chopped up.

You may be correct in what farmers use. I don't know the brand or type name but they periodically use some form of blitzing agent that turns a field brown in only a few days and I'm told the object is to kill everything off so that the ground can be re-seeded with grass for improved grazing. Purely as an observer, these chemical applications don't seem to be the answer and the effects on wildlife, especially bees, make them a poor buy in my view.

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michael brenock
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dear blowin I do not regard myself as the master, to put people down is not my form. Sorry if I sounded masterish, The upper part of the dock root can resprout but the lower part cannot. Bandock is used specifically for Dock killing.
michael brenock horticultural advisor (retired)
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Blowin
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly no offence taken, Michael, but your experience is clearly a hundred times more than mine (as per your book).
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