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Please help identify my new Bonsai project


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PeterEnglish
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: I'm fascinated... Reply with quote

I wish you'd posted this last month, because I'm looking at POT 028 thinking dammit, I dug mine up the other week!

I discovered it as a seedling about five or six years ago, and, wanting to see what it would turn out to be, I nurtured it carefully. Last year it produced yellow cotoneaster-like flowers and I decided it was a just some boring mutant bird-pooped thing from my next-door neighbour's cotoneaster. Hers produces berries, mine didn't - it just sat there looking whippy. Last month I dug it out to make room for a row of broad beans.

Now you've got me wondering, what exactly have I killed?

Incidentally, if you can recommend some good bonsai websites, I'd be interested. My kids have grown four tamarinds from the seeds in a tamarind block, and I've heard they can be bonsaied.
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willie
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys, Thanks again for all your efforts...still no joy Laughing

The Botanical Gardens have not responded to me either. They either are stumped(scuse the pun Confused ) or they aren't interested. Peter, with regard to Bonsai sites that are helpful, absolutely there are good sites. Heres on called Bonsai4me. Here's a couple of photos of Bonsaied tamarinds on that site. In their info section you will find a world of knowledge.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Gallery/gallerymanilashow3.htm

When you've read everything there then read everything here :

http://www.bonsaisite.com/

When you've done that and armed with the basics go on the forum/ discussion area on on the bonsaisite.com , here : http://www.bonsaisite.com/forums/index.php?showforum=3

You will find those guys are absolute first class people and will take time to help you with anything , so long as you've done your research and read whatever they give you. Get some quality photos and learn how to post them, they'll talk to you much quicker


Last edited by willie on Fri May 28, 2010 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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walltoall
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: That bonsai must be kept growing and the search must go on. Reply with quote

Willie, the first thing a bonsai man needs is patience the second thing he needs is foresight. This specimen will be a tree some day and you have all the time in the world to find out what it is. Don't just drop the search. I kniow from old on this website there are people ferreting away on all sorts of searches. The answer will come eventually.

This Irish Gardeners site is an enormous resource. You may not yet know how enormous but if you use its own search facility and put "bonsai" in it returns 778 topics (as of 8.30 this evening) which mention the word "bonsai". Stick with us lad and stick with the wee tree. It'll explain itself eventually.

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willie
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: That bonsai must be kept growing and the search must go Reply with quote

walltoall wrote:
Willie, the first thing a bonsai man needs is patience the second thing he needs is foresight. This specimen will be a tree some day ...


You have that right, and that was my first lesson. There are no instant results in Bonsai. A bit like raising kids... Mad . i know a bit about patience.

But I cant stop collecting specimens, so the only way is up. My biggest fear about this tree is that it is weak, but I've seen stabilisation over the last couple of days that makes me feel hopeful. I'm hoping it turns out to be something truly unique, maybe it is, maybe it aint.
But I walked that whole ditch yesterday 500m or so and I saw Beeches, birches, willows, sycamores but there is not one single other tree like that to be found there.

Here's hoping.

Thanks Wall.

By the way I like your signature, making ends meet by burning both ends. Like it, might have to use it. Wink
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willie
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No response from the Botanical Gardens.

Nobody knows the what tree is...

Good Razz

Its doing well anyway. So there we go.
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mountainy man
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello have been following this thread since it started but didnt want to get it wrong but what the hell, just a guess, I think its an alder possibly alnus incana the grey alder . I think that we are being confused by the juvinile leaves , have a look on wikipedia there are some very similar looking leaf pics . also it could be a hybrid alder mabey a new one and you could name it after yourself ! Cool
just out of interest where in sligo did you find it ? on a forestry road i found a seedling of alnus maritima had me baffled for ages til I found out what it was ! good luck with it Very Happy

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willie
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input Mountainy man. A lot of people have suggested Alder. And there are similarities but also differences.

The main difference, which from what I can see is never going to change , no matter how old the plant gets, id the leaf shape.

I'm talking about the contact point between the base of the leaf and the stem. You will see that this is rounded and heart-shaped. Very few trees exhibit this feature. Alders do not, from what I can see.

Aldericus Willicus. ? Laughing I found it in a field on the edge of a drain 8miles South of Balleygawley.
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PeterEnglish
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't Alnus Williensis be better?

Or does that sound too much like a serious medical condition?
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walltoall
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: bonsai alnus incana kolaensis Reply with quote

You're a shrewd mountainyman too! Just this morning I went to Brentwood to look at a grey alder (var. kolaensis) and it has similar bark to Willie's specimen. However its well grown about 20 years old and the leaves are dark both sides. But they are very similar in shape and rib pattern to the third photo.
Your comment about 'juvenile leaves' was helpful; Willie's shots show leaves lighter behind than before. So the boss was probably right after all when he suggested "alder". "The boss isn't always right but he's always the boss". Take a bow James. Twisted Evil

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willie
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst I fully accept it may be an Adler, I just don't think so. The Alder leaves are firm and shiny. These leaves are soft , dimpled, with the texture of a fruit tree.

Have you any photos of the tree you describe

Alnus Williensis ? Yeh hmm.. But it does sound a bit like something a dose of penicillin might cure.
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willie
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackBird wrote:
Would I be crazy in saying that it looks a little like Mulberry?


No you flippin well wouldnt. I had to think back cos I knew someone said Mulberry.

I got a new book on trees today and the drawing of the leaf just struck me as right. I think you might have gotten it. I'm starting to think its a black Mulberry.

http://www.trees-online.co.uk/images/black-mulberry-tree-morus-nigra-523.jpg

Also when I look at this picture I have to admit it's 90% right.

By Jove I think you have it my man...bird...birdman Smile
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Silver surfer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been watching this post with interest!
I am sorry but I do not think that it can be Morus nigra, the Black Mulberry.

The leaves on your bonsai, pic 2 are opposite to each other on the branch. Morus are alternate.
Alnus are also alternate, so that rules that out as well.


http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Morus_nigra_F.jpg/73px-Morus_nigra_F.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Morus_nigra&usg=__we7nrempKkoHv1-OhiviHTNOOvs=&h=120&w=73&sz=3&hl=en&start=70&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=3h0aNk5w-jpxYM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=54&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMorus%2Bnigra%2Bleaf%26start%3D60%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dp,com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-ContextMenu%26rlz%3D1I7SUNA_en-GB%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

This link may help clarify what opposite and alternate leaves look like.

http://spam.edu/common/images/leafarrangement.gif


Last edited by Silver surfer on Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PeterEnglish
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just when you thought it was safe to climb up the drainpipe, stand on the roof and shout "Willie has a bent Morus Nigra"...

I can't see any similarity between your leaves and the ones I've been looking at on mulberry websites; this one, for instance:

http://www.rogerstreesandshrubs.com/gallery/DisplayBlock~bid~8511~gid~~source~gallerydefault.asp

Have you contacted the Royal Horticultural Society of Ireland? What did they say?
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Sive
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about going straight to the fount of all knowledge.......Kew Gardens in London ? They surely will be able to help you.
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willie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've sent all pics to the botanic society of Ireland. Never got a response. The Bonsai soil regime is perplexing me and this tree is still slowly dying. I thought I had an idea of what it was. But certainly those black Mulberry leaf pics, that were posted, do not compare to my tree.
http://www.trees-online.co.uk/images/black-mulberry-tree-morus-nigra-523.jpg
This photo is the one that most resembles the tree. Whatever this tree is, then my tree is the same, I'm convinced of it. This guy must also have bad ID on his tree. This is it.
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